Thinking Christian: Bible, Theology, and Culture

What if the church is trapped in the same invisible loop as an addict — and doesn't know it? What does addiction science have to do with the body of Christ? More than you'd think. In this follow-up conversation, Dr. James Spencer and Dr. Ashish Varma build on their interview with Dr. David Van Dyke (Wheaton College Marriage & Family Therapy) to explore how systems thinking unlocks a deeper understanding of church health, Christian formation, and why faithful people keep repeating the same destructive patterns. Drawing on Kent Dunnington's groundbreaking work Virtue and Addiction, the conversation reveals that the opposite of virtue isn't simply vice — it's addiction. Both are habit-formed, systems-shaped realities. The hosts then turn this lens on the church: from organizational cultures stuck in toxic loops, to single-issue political formation, to Pharaoh's fear-driven decision-making in Exodus — and what it all reveals about how invisible systems shape us without our awareness. This is a rare conversation: calm, theologically rigorous, and genuinely challenging for anyone who wants to think clearly about what it means to be the body of Christ in the world today. Key Takeaways: Why addiction is the true opposite of virtue — not vice — according to philosopher Kent Dunnington How invisible systems shape our habits, reactions, and identities without our awareness Why single-issue political engagement may be forming us into political animals rather than disciples The Pharaoh principle: how fear-driven, system-bound thinking causes us to miss what God is doing The Ephesus problem: the danger of being doctrinally right but missionally withdrawn What Jeremiah 7 and Acts 7 reveal about mistaking second-order goods (doctrine, temples) for first-order realities What does a multi-denominational coffee shop Bible study teach the church about unity? Get early access and a bonus with a Patreon membership. Subscribe to our YouTube channel To read James's article on this topic, check out his author page on Christianity.com. 📢 Stay Connected & Keep Growing! If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe to Thinking Christian, so you never miss an insightful conversation! Discover more Christian podcasts at lifeaudio.com and inquire about advertising opportunities at lifeaudio.com/contact-us.

Most people think of mental health as an individual problem. Dr. David J. Van Dyke — professor, marriage and family therapist, and co-host of the With You podcast — thinks that's exactly the wrong frame. In this episode, Dr. Spencer and Ashish sit down with David to unpack how family systems therapy fundamentally reorients the way we see suffering, relationships, and even the gospel itself. From a rebellious teenager who kept losing possessions until there was nothing left to take, to Paul's language of perseverance in suffering, David draws a sweeping line between relational science and redemptive theology. He argues the entire arc of Scripture — from the intimacy of Eden to the rupture of the Fall to the systemic intervention of the Incarnation — is a relational rupture-and-repair story. And that changes everything about how we do therapy, parenting, church leadership, and discipleship. If you've ever wondered why "doing everything right" doesn't guarantee good outcomes, why moral failure in a pastor becomes a congregational crisis, or what Phil Jackson and the Book of Job have in common — this conversation is for you. Thinking Christian is hosted by Dr. James Spencer, president of the D. L. Moody Center and author of Digital Discernment (InterVarsity Press). Each conversation reads the Bible as the final authority for life and faith, questioning the assumptions of our culture, even our Christian culture, so that we don't settle for a narrower vision than God's word offers. Unsettling convention. Cultivating conviction.Episodes, articles, and questions: thinkingchristian.orgAbout James Spencer: thinkingchristian.org/jamesThe Thinking Christian Framework: thinkingchristian.org/frameworkOrder Digital Discernment: amazon.com Subscribe: YouTube · Apple Podcasts · Spotify Advertising and partnership inquiries: info@thinkingchristian.org Key Takeaways Systems, not individuals, carry symptoms. Depression, anxiety, and misbehaviour often serve a function within the relational system — not just the person. The therapist's real question is "how," not "why." Asking why digs into individual meaning; asking how reveals the relational dance keeping a system stuck. The Incarnation as systemic intervention. Christ didn't just save individuals — He changed the rules of the game. Second-order change. Resilience grows from optimal frustration, not comfort. Numbing pain also numbs joy. The goal is to come alongside suffering, not remove it. Isolation is poison to the human soul. An embodied, safe community is the prerequisite for every hard conversation the church needs to have. Love your spouse as an act of worship. Not a transaction. Not what they deserve. As worship — and it rewires the entire relational dynamic. Western individualism is a therapy problem too. In Illinois, 1 in 15 licensed mental health providers is a marriage and family therapist. The rest are trained to see individuals. The relational blind spot is systemic. Discover more Christian podcasts at lifeaudio.com and inquire about advertising opportunities at lifeaudio.com/contact-us.

Is Christian parenting a strict formula to execute, or an art form to practice? In a culture that bombards Christian parents with exhaustive 10-step checklists and uniform blueprints for family life, it is remarkably easy to accidentally provoke or exasperate our children. This week, Dr. James Spencer, PhD and Dr. Ashish Varma return to the podcast to look at fatherhood through the lens of scriptural wisdom rather than cultural anxieties. True biblical wisdom doesn't produce recipe-followers; it forms adaptive disciples. Pulling from the book of Proverbs, the Sermon on the Mount, and the letters of Paul, James and Ashish discuss why parenting requires holy improvisation—a pastoral sensitivity that allows a father to receive his children exactly as they are and adjust his training to fit their unique design. In this episode, we discuss: The "Chopped" Mystery Basket: Viewing your child's distinct traits as raw ingredients that require expert, customized care. The Education Fit: An honest, non-judgmental look at public vs. private schooling, and why identical principles led both hosts to entirely different local schooling choices for their kids. Healthy Friction vs. Exasperation: Learning how far to push a child to build resilience without crossing the line into crushing their spirit. The Long Game: Moving past the urge to "fix" every behavioral issue instantly, focusing instead on building the profound, long-term trust your children will need well into adulthood. Form your character, drop the rigid checklists, and learn to enjoy the beautiful, improvisational calling of being a dad. Thinking Christian is hosted by Dr. James Spencer, president of the D. L. Moody Center and author of Digital Discernment (InterVarsity Press). Each conversation reads the Bible as the final authority for life and faith, questioning the assumptions of our culture, even our Christian culture, so that we don't settle for a narrower vision than God's word offers. Unsettling convention. Cultivating conviction.Episodes, articles, and questions: thinkingchristian.orgAbout James Spencer: thinkingchristian.org/jamesThe Thinking Christian Framework: thinkingchristian.org/frameworkOrder Digital Discernment: amazon.com Subscribe: YouTube · Apple Podcasts · Spotify Advertising and partnership inquiries: info@thinkingchristian.org Discover more Christian podcasts at lifeaudio.com and inquire about advertising opportunities at lifeaudio.com/contact-us.

The Southern Baptist Convention just passed a constitutional amendment restricting women in ministry — and the implications reach far beyond the SBC. In this episode of Thinking Christian, Dr. James Spencer and co-host Ashish Varma sit down with Dr. Beth Allison Barr, historian, Baylor professor, and author of The Making of Biblical Womanhoodand Becoming the Pastor's Wife, to break down what happened, why it matters, and where evangelical Christianity may be heading. Beth traces the amendment's path from 2022 to its overwhelming passage in 2025, explains why Al Mohler's role was decisive, and unpacks the striking inconsistency at the heart of the SBC's position: the same ecclesiology used to avoid accountability for sexual abuse was set aside the moment women's roles came to a vote. We also go deeper into the historical forces behind this moment, from the fundamentalist-modernist controversy to decades of seminary curriculum that have shaped an entire generation of Christians who have never encountered a different reading of scripture. If you've wondered how complementarianism moves toward biblical patriarchy, Beth explains exactly how that progression works and why it isn't accidental. The conversation also takes up the coordination problem: the SBC has Desiring God, the Gospel Coalition, and institutional momentum built over decades. Those committed to keeping these conversations open and honest largely do not. That gap matters, and we name it directly. Topics covered: SBC constitutional amendment, women in ministry, complementarianism vs. egalitarianism, Al Mohler, biblical womanhood, evangelical polarization, church history, Beth Allison Barr Go deeper: Unmanly Thinking Christian is hosted by Dr. James Spencer, president of the D. L. Moody Center and author of Digital Discernment (InterVarsity Press). Each conversation reads the Bible as the final authority for life and faith, questioning the assumptions of our culture, even our Christian culture, so that we don't settle for a narrower vision than God's word offers. Unsettling convention. Cultivating conviction.Episodes, articles, and questions: thinkingchristian.orgAbout James Spencer: thinkingchristian.org/jamesThe Thinking Christian Framework: thinkingchristian.org/frameworkOrder Digital Discernment: amazon.com Subscribe: YouTube · Apple Podcasts · Spotify Advertising and partnership inquiries: info@thinkingchristian.org Check out Beth's Substack at bethallisonbarr.substack.com, and her books: The Making of Biblical Womanhood and Becoming the Pastor's Wife. Discover more Christian podcasts at lifeaudio.com and inquire about advertising opportunities at lifeaudio.com/contact-us.

What does it actually mean to be a male disciple of Jesus? And why does so much of what gets called "biblical masculinity" look more like cultural bravado than anything Jesus modeled or taught? In this episode, I'm joined by Dr. Kutter Callaway, associate professor of theology and psychology at Fuller Seminary and author of Theology for Psychology and Counseling, to dig into those questions. We talk through how we got here, because this didn't just appear out of nowhere. There's a history, a response to the feminist movement, the Promise Keepers era, and now a political and technological moment that's made a certain vision of masculinity almost impossible to avoid. The tragedy is that the answer to real male loneliness has been, in so many corners of the church, a kind of machismo that has very little to do with the Jesus of the Gospels. We get into how certain exegetes have tried to make Jesus a model of masculine strength in ways the text doesn't support, the structural inconsistencies in how the SBC has applied its ecclesiology, and why discipleship, not dominance, is the frame we actually need. Kutter's closing point, that we need to ask not "what's wrong with you" but "what happened to you," is something worth sitting with. Go deeper: Unmanly Thinking Christian is hosted by Dr. James Spencer, president of the D. L. Moody Center and author of Digital Discernment (InterVarsity Press). Each conversation reads the Bible as the final authority for life and faith, questioning the assumptions of our culture, even our Christian culture, so that we don't settle for a narrower vision than God's word offers. Unsettling convention. Cultivating conviction.Episodes, articles, and questions: thinkingchristian.orgAbout James Spencer: thinkingchristian.org/jamesThe Thinking Christian Framework: thinkingchristian.org/frameworkOrder Digital Discernment: amazon.com Subscribe: YouTube · Apple Podcasts · Spotify Advertising and partnership inquiries: info@thinkingchristian.org Check out Kutter's work at kuttercallaway.com and his Substack, The Wrong Kind of Christian, at kuttercallaway.substack.com. Discover more Christian podcasts at lifeaudio.com and inquire about advertising opportunities at lifeaudio.com/contact-us.

What if Old Testament laws aren’t outdated rules to follow, but a deep, tangible story we are invited to practice? In this episode of Thinking Christian, host James Spencer is joined once again by Rebekah Josberger and Renee Duffy from the Bible Unbranded podcast to tackle one of the most debated topics in biblical study: how to interpret Old Testament law through a theological framework. Using the command of the Sabbath as their core anchor ⚓, the team unpacks how the ancient laws in Deuteronomy and Exodus are designed to reveal the incomparable character of God rather than construct a human utopia. Together, they build essential "theological guardrails" to avoid the common trap of "time snobbery"—the evolutionary fallacy that modern believers have simply moved past ancient struggles. From navigating the tension of Christological readings to contrasting the "shadow and substance" themes in the Book of Hebrews, this conversation offers deep theological exploration paired with a refreshing framework for how the church can embody sacred order in a chaotic social landscape today. What You’ll Discover in This Episode: The Guardrail of "Time Snobbery": Why modern culture isn’t fundamentally more advanced than ancient biblical communities when it comes to understanding God. Shadows vs. Substance: How the imagery of Hebrews bridges old revelations with post-resurrection realities without diminishing the Old Testament. Law as Practiced Story: Shift your perspective from rigid legalism to an active, physical rehearsal of God's character. The Convergence of Creation and Exodus: Unpacking why Exodus links the Sabbath to creation, while Deuteronomy anchors it in liberation. Go deeper: Trajectories Thinking Christian is hosted by Dr. James Spencer, president of the D. L. Moody Center and author of Digital Discernment (InterVarsity Press). Each conversation reads the Bible as the final authority for life and faith, questioning the assumptions of our culture, even our Christian culture, so that we don't settle for a narrower vision than God's word offers. Unsettling convention. Cultivating conviction.Episodes, articles, and questions: thinkingchristian.orgAbout James Spencer: thinkingchristian.org/jamesThe Thinking Christian Framework: thinkingchristian.org/frameworkOrder Digital Discernment: amazon.com Subscribe: YouTube · Apple Podcasts · Spotify Advertising and partnership inquiries: info@thinkingchristian.org Discover more Christian podcasts at lifeaudio.com and inquire about advertising opportunities at lifeaudio.com/contact-us.

Is the Old Testament Law a heavy burden to be avoided, or a guide to the heart of the Lawgiver? In this installment of our crossover series with the Bible Unbranded podcast, Dr. James Spencer, Renee Duffy, and Dr. Rebekah Josberger tackle the common misconceptions surrounding Biblical Law. Far from being an obsolete set of rules, the law—and specifically the Sabbath command—reveals deep theological truths about who God is and how He cares for His creation. In this episode, we discuss: Rehabilitating the Law: Moving past the idea that the Law is "passe" to see it as a vital revelation of God's character. The Logic of the Sabbath: Exploring why a "day of rest" is actually a theological statement about God’s sovereignty and provision. Trust vs. Effort: How the Sabbath forces us to confront our own "limitless" desire to provide for ourselves instead of trusting God. The Beauty of Boundaries: Why God’s instructions are designed to protect and bless us, helping us fall in love with Him more deeply. Practical Rhythm: Navigating what it looks like to find rest and "Sabbath moments" in a modern, 24/7 world. Stop seeing the Law as a list to check off and start seeing it as an invitation to rest in the Creator. Join us as we explore the life-giving nature of God's commands. Go deeper: Trajectories Thinking Christian is hosted by Dr. James Spencer, president of the D. L. Moody Center and author of Digital Discernment (InterVarsity Press). Each conversation reads the Bible as the final authority for life and faith, questioning the assumptions of our culture, even our Christian culture, so that we don't settle for a narrower vision than God's word offers. Unsettling convention. Cultivating conviction.Episodes, articles, and questions: thinkingchristian.orgAbout James Spencer: thinkingchristian.org/jamesThe Thinking Christian Framework: thinkingchristian.org/frameworkOrder Digital Discernment: amazon.com Subscribe: YouTube · Apple Podcasts · Spotify Advertising and partnership inquiries: info@thinkingchristian.org Discover more Christian podcasts at lifeaudio.com and inquire about advertising opportunities at lifeaudio.com/contact-us.

For many Christians, the Book of Deuteronomy feels like a dense wilderness of repetitive laws and ancient regulations that seem disconnected from a vibrant relationship with Jesus. 📜📉 In this episode of Thinking Christian, Dr. James Spencer sits down with Renee Duffy and Dr. Rebekah Josberger from the Bible Unbranded podcast to flip the script. They reveal that Deuteronomy isn't a burden—it’s the "backbone" of the Bible. By exploring the specific "if-then" commands and Moses' final heartfelt sermons, they show how these laws are actually windows into God’s character, designed to help us fall in love with Him more deeply. ⚓✨ In this episode, we discuss: Law as Revelation: Why the instructions in Deuteronomy are meant to show us who God is, not just what to do. 🧐 The Theological Backbone: How this book supports the narrative of the entire Old Testament. Love vs. Fear: Balancing the referential awe of God with the intimacy of His provision. Provision Logic: What ancient agricultural laws teach us about trusting God today. Go deeper: Trajectories Thinking Christian is hosted by Dr. James Spencer, president of the D. L. Moody Center and author of Digital Discernment (InterVarsity Press). Each conversation reads the Bible as the final authority for life and faith, questioning the assumptions of our culture, even our Christian culture, so that we don't settle for a narrower vision than God's word offers. Unsettling convention. Cultivating conviction.Episodes, articles, and questions: thinkingchristian.orgAbout James Spencer: thinkingchristian.org/jamesThe Thinking Christian Framework: thinkingchristian.org/frameworkOrder Digital Discernment: amazon.com Subscribe: YouTube · Apple Podcasts · Spotify Advertising and partnership inquiries: info@thinkingchristian.org Discover more Christian podcasts at lifeaudio.com and inquire about advertising opportunities at lifeaudio.com/contact-us.

Is there a "secret recipe" for biblical fatherhood, or have we been looking at the wrong map? In this special Father's Day episode of Thinking Christian, Dr. James Spencer and Dr. Ashish Varma sit down to discuss the weight and wonder of Christian fatherhood. Moving beyond cultural stereotypes, they dive into Ephesians 5 and 6 to explore how a father’s role is rooted not in dominance, but in the wisdom of the Spirit and the mutual submission of the household. In this episode, we discuss: Walking in Wisdom: Breaking down Ephesians 5:15-21 and why "making the most of the time" is the foundation of a father’s leadership. Beyond the Recipe: Why parenting is an exercise in wisdom, not a set of predictable "inputs and outputs." Mutual Submission: How the command to "submit to one another" in the Spirit reshapes the way fathers relate to their families. Statecraft as Soulcraft: Understanding that how you manage your home is the ultimate training ground for your own spiritual formation. Individualized Love: The call to recognize each child’s unique personality and needs rather than forcing a uniform standard. Fatherhood isn't about being the "boss"—it's about being a disciple who leads by following. Join us for a candid conversation about the challenges and joys of raising the next generation. ⚓✨ Thinking Christian is hosted by Dr. James Spencer, president of the D. L. Moody Center and author of Digital Discernment (InterVarsity Press). Each conversation reads the Bible as the final authority for life and faith, questioning the assumptions of our culture, even our Christian culture, so that we don't settle for a narrower vision than God's word offers. Unsettling convention. Cultivating conviction.Episodes, articles, and questions: thinkingchristian.orgAbout James Spencer: thinkingchristian.org/jamesThe Thinking Christian Framework: thinkingchristian.org/frameworkOrder Digital Discernment: amazon.com Subscribe: YouTube · Apple Podcasts · Spotify Advertising and partnership inquiries: info@thinkingchristian.org Discover more Christian podcasts at lifeaudio.com and inquire about advertising opportunities at lifeaudio.com/contact-us.

Is our modern definition of "toughness" actually biblical, or is it just a shadow of the ancient world? In this intellectually stimulating episode of Thinking Christian, Dr. James Spencer and Dr. Ashish Varma explore the intersection of virtue ethics and theology. They look back at how the ancient world understood masculinity and femininity in relation to the virtues and ask: How did the early church transform these ideas into a call for all disciples? In this episode, we discuss: Virtue Epistemology: Moving beyond "what we know" to "who we are" as a prerequisite for truth. The Classical Map of Virtue: How concepts like courage, fortitude, and restraint were gendered in the ancient world. Redefining Toughness: Shifting from a "claspable" understanding of physical toughness to the spiritual grit of the person of Jesus. The Universal Call: Why virtues like courage and restraint are not gender-exclusive but are intended for everyone conformed to the image of Christ. Character over Culture: Navigating the current cultural tide by rooting our identity in the character of God rather than social stereotypes. Join us as we bridge the gap between ancient philosophy and modern discipleship to find a more robust way to live as men and women of faith. Go deeper: Unmanly Thinking Christian is hosted by Dr. James Spencer, president of the D. L. Moody Center and author of Digital Discernment (InterVarsity Press). Each conversation reads the Bible as the final authority for life and faith, questioning the assumptions of our culture, even our Christian culture, so that we don't settle for a narrower vision than God's word offers. Unsettling convention. Cultivating conviction.Episodes, articles, and questions: thinkingchristian.orgAbout James Spencer: thinkingchristian.org/jamesThe Thinking Christian Framework: thinkingchristian.org/frameworkOrder Digital Discernment: amazon.com Subscribe: YouTube · Apple Podcasts · Spotify Advertising and partnership inquiries: info@thinkingchristian.org Discover more Christian podcasts at lifeaudio.com and inquire about advertising opportunities at lifeaudio.com/contact-us.